Comments on: The Millennium and the Resurrection of the Dead http://undeception.com/the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead By faith, Abraham... Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:03:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Steve http://undeception.com/the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-107 Steve Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:24:00 +0000 http://undeception.com/?p=31#comment-107 I don't really bifurcate them in a systematic way; what I mean is more that I failed to see the postmillennial resurrection as the continuation and completion of the firstfruits harvest that was the First Resurrection. I have even in my mind allowed that the "General Resurrection" may have had a slightly different nature than the first, although what the actual distinction was, I couldn't tell you, because I couldn't really validate it in Scripture. Perhaps it's some of that old futurism lying around... I don’t really bifurcate them in a systematic way; what I mean is more that I failed to see the postmillennial resurrection as the continuation and completion of the firstfruits harvest that was the First Resurrection. I have even in my mind allowed that the “General Resurrection” may have had a slightly different nature than the first, although what the actual distinction was, I couldn’t tell you, because I couldn’t really validate it in Scripture. Perhaps it’s some of that old futurism lying around…

]]> By: graham http://undeception.com/the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-106 graham Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:23:14 +0000 http://undeception.com/?p=31#comment-106 Thanks, Steve. Can you expand on how you bifurcate the first and general resurrection? Thanks, Steve.

Can you expand on how you bifurcate the first and general resurrection?

]]> By: Steve http://undeception.com/the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-105 Steve Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:44:19 +0000 http://undeception.com/?p=31#comment-105 Believe me, I know what you mean. :D I appreciate your interaction on these issues. As far as Preston's article, it has challenged me, as well. I tend to sharply bifurcate the First Resurrection and the General Resurrection, whereas Preston makes a cogent argument that they are separated in time and target, but not in nature. I'll never be done learning! My "undeception" will never be complete. But that's ok. Believe me, I know what you mean. :D I appreciate your interaction on these issues.

As far as Preston’s article, it has challenged me, as well. I tend to sharply bifurcate the First Resurrection and the General Resurrection, whereas Preston makes a cogent argument that they are separated in time and target, but not in nature.

I’ll never be done learning! My “undeception” will never be complete. But that’s ok.

]]> By: graham http://undeception.com/the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-108 graham Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:55:29 +0000 http://undeception.com/?p=31#comment-108 Thanks for your response, Steve. Here are where my thoughts lie at the moment... in a muddle! I won't try to respond to your points here, other than to repeat that sometimes when 'death' is spoken of it is physical and sometimes it is spiritual - and to reiterate that my understanding of Rev. 20 seems to place it squarely in that time when 'he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.' Interestingly, I was reading Don Preston's article that you link to above when I noticed that you'd replied to my comment. Don't you hate it when you feel like the truth is out to get you?! ;-) Thanks for your response, Steve.

Here are where my thoughts lie at the moment… in a muddle!

I won’t try to respond to your points here, other than to repeat that sometimes when ‘death’ is spoken of it is physical and sometimes it is spiritual – and to reiterate that my understanding of Rev. 20 seems to place it squarely in that time when ‘he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.’

Interestingly, I was reading Don Preston’s article that you link to above when I noticed that you’d replied to my comment. Don’t you hate it when you feel like the truth is out to get you?! ;-)

]]> By: Steve http://undeception.com/the-millennium-and-the-resurrection-of-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-86 Steve Sat, 24 Nov 2007 03:20:36 +0000 http://undeception.com/?p=31#comment-86 Here's a great <a href="http://www.eschatology.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=124&Itemid=61" rel="nofollow">in-depth discussion of resurrection</a> by Don Preston. Here's an interesting outtake: <blockquote>John, in 5:24-25 speaks of the beginning of the harvest — the firstfruits, if you will — "the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live." He then speaks of the rest of the harvest in verse 28-29 — "Marvel not at this for the hour is coming when all that are in the graves shall hear." The movement is from some who hear unto life, to all those who hear and some to condemnation. Revelation 14 contains the identical motif. In verses 1-5 we find the 144,000 who are the firstfruits unto God. These are the redeemed. They follow the Lamb. They hear his voice. In verses 14-20 the focus is on the remainder of the harvest and on condemnation just as in John 5:28-29. The parallels between John 5 and Revelation 14 are too obvious to be ignored. The "coming hour" of John 5 is "the hour of his judgment" in Revelation 14. And since Revelation 14 is so emphatic as to the imminence of that impending judgment we must see that the critical "coming hour" of John 5:28- 29 was not an event millennia removed from Jesus' day but was to occur in his generation. That Revelation, and specifically chapter 14, deals with the A.D. 70 judgment against the Old Covenant World of Israel is illustrated in several ways. In verse 20 it says the "winepress was trodden without the city" — this term "without the city" is almost a technical term to identify Jerusalem, see Hebrews 13:12-13. Further, the writer says the blood from the judgment flowed for 1600 furlongs — almost 200 miles. As many commentators have noted, this is the measurement for the land of Israel. This is then a coded expression to signify not only the horrible nature of the impending suffering but to express its focus as well. Are we to believe that the writer expressed the judgment in terms that would bring Israel to mind when he actually had Rome in view? In Revelation 14 we find, as in 1 John and the book of John, the impending critical hour. In both 1 John and Revelation we find emphatic time indicators saying the consummative hour was imminent.</blockquote> Here’s a great in-depth discussion of resurrection by Don Preston. Here’s an interesting outtake:

John, in 5:24-25 speaks of the beginning of the harvest — the firstfruits, if you will — “the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.” He then speaks of the rest of the harvest in verse 28-29 — “Marvel not at this for the hour is coming when all that are in the graves shall hear.” The movement is from some who hear unto life, to all those who hear and some to condemnation.

Revelation 14 contains the identical motif. In verses 1-5 we find the 144,000 who are the firstfruits unto God. These are the redeemed. They follow the Lamb. They hear his voice. In verses 14-20 the focus is on the remainder of the harvest and on condemnation just as in John 5:28-29.

The parallels between John 5 and Revelation 14 are too obvious to be ignored. The “coming hour” of John 5 is “the hour of his judgment” in Revelation 14. And since Revelation 14 is so emphatic as to the imminence of that impending judgment we must see that the critical “coming hour” of John 5:28- 29 was not an event millennia removed from Jesus’ day but was to occur in his generation.

That Revelation, and specifically chapter 14, deals with the A.D. 70 judgment against the Old Covenant World of Israel is illustrated in several ways. In verse 20 it says the “winepress was trodden without the city” — this term “without the city” is almost a technical term to identify Jerusalem, see Hebrews 13:12-13. Further, the writer says the blood from the judgment flowed for 1600 furlongs — almost 200 miles. As many commentators have noted, this is the measurement for the land of Israel. This is then a coded expression to signify not only the horrible nature of the impending suffering but to express its focus as well. Are we to believe that the writer expressed the judgment in terms that would bring Israel to mind when he actually had Rome in view?

In Revelation 14 we find, as in 1 John and the book of John, the impending critical hour. In both 1 John and Revelation we find emphatic time indicators saying the consummative hour was imminent.

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