Undeception

Very cool…

Thanks

Very nice, Steve. Now write a tune…

Thanks for your pleasant comment. I know it’s not T.S. Eliot. What can I say? I’m not a poet and do know it. (but my feet don’t know it, because they’re longfellows)

And yeah, because it’s not so good in and of itself, it does probably need music: hymns are held to lower standards than poetry. But what’s the point? Who would sing it?

I was just wondering when this occured. I am assuming you maintain this is past becuase of the tenses you use. I was just wondering if this occur in 30 AD or in 70 AD or at another time according to your viewpoint?

http://preteristheresy.blogspot.com/

I would sing it. )

@Leah, I’ll write you some music for this one when you write me some lyrics for another one

@Mr. Heresy, I’m afraid you need to be more specific. Did which part occur in AD 30 or AD 70?

I am asking when the present heavens and earth passed away. You know, the Heavens and earth that were RESERVED for judgment of ungodly men. When was death was destroyed. Do people still die this same death today (spiritually)? If not what death was removed in 70ad? When did the day of judgment occur? If this is a past event, does it continue to apply today? Does judgment apply outwardly or inwardly? I was not sure if you believe this was in 30AD or 70AD since these are historical themes. Do these things still apply to those outside of Christ. If they are past events, how can the continue to apply? If we are now in the New Heavens and Earth, did those who survived 70ad, were they found righteous or worthy to enter in?

Just a few questions, that I would like to understand a little better.

God Bless.

http://preteristheresy.blogspot.com/

“The heavens and the earth” was poetic/prophetic diction to refer to a totality analogous to our generic word “world” today in usages like, “Then, on October 9th, George’s world came crashing down.” For the Jews, the notion that their “most favored nation” status before God based on their ethnicity and the institutions of the Law of Moses could be abolished would definitely qualify as their world crashing down.

The world without the revelation of Christ was passing away. The death of Adam and Sheol were annulled at the General Resurrection of the Dead. Physical death was not meant to be destroyed at the end of this Day of the Lord, as demonstrated by Rev. 14:13.

These aren’t simply past events — let me show you how they are the preparation for the events that Christians have always understood to be present. Before Christ, people died and went into soul sleep (Sheol). Even God’s chosen people, the natural children of Abraham, who were supposed to be an example to the world, replaced the faithfulness of Abraham with rote observance of the Law. The judgment that occurred circa AD 70 ended all that: judgment for all the living and those who had died before based on the standard of the glorified Son of Man (cf. Matthew 25), was rendered once the Gospel had been preached to all peoples (Acts 24:5, Rom. 1:8 and Col. 1:6, 23) so that those living, Jew and Gentile, had a chance to align themselves with the Savior of humanity. God’s judgment on the Old Covenant system had to occur before the New Covenant, which is simply Christianity as we know it, could take full effect. Why? In Matthew 5:18, Jesus explains, “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” Read my other posts, and you’ll see more details.

God bless you for saying “These aren’t simply past events.” I have quoted many on my site who do say or express “mere past events.” Stevens and Preston are two examples who continue to show this throughout their writings. I will post everyone I can find that demonstrate this. They then will make consessions to say something is fulfilled but ongoing. And is really just a compromise to their already defined hermenutic.

I do not believe the Old Covenant (a covenant of flesh) was removed or passes away in 70ad. I do not believe the New Covenant (a covenant of spirit and life) began in 70ad. It makes absolutely no sense that something that is said to be written on the heart, to be fulfilled, or come to pass at any point in time. The covenant is within not without, internal not external. How does Roman Armies destruction of physical things, make a new covenant within his people? Instead, I maintain that all men are in a covenant of flesh (represented by the Mosaic Covenant). Those who put on Christ, and are born again, become part of the new covenant. Even when one is born again, the old of the flesh does not die until we die physically. The flesh is waxing old and ready to disappear. When we die physically, that is the point of consumation. that is when the reward is given “well done good and faithful servant”. This is at the time of the harvest when the wheat and tares are seperated. This does not occur in 70ad, but at physical death. This is when Paul says “I have found the good fight, I have finished the course” when he was personaly poured out in the likeness of Christ.

I don’t believe it was ever about physical nations, physical structures but about a revealing or manifesting of a individual process from the old to the new as seen in the exodus. Nothing passes or is fulfilled through temporal events. Which is why the things seen are just types pointing to the things not seen which are the antitypes. That being the true substance.

Judgment on physical nations are mere types also of judgment which occurs within the heart. Every man is judged according to his deeds, which is a reflection of his heart. Judgment is again not external but internal. So how could the destruction of Jerusalem be the judgment which is “reserved for judgment of ungodly men.” How can this end or pass away in 70ad.

I discuss this on my site in greater detail.

http://preteristheresy.blogspot.com/